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Mr. Scheuer: Good morning everyone. I always start by saying that I resigned from the CIA in November 2004 not because I had anything against the Agency. With all due respect to the Air Force, I think it's the best place to work in America. I resigned simply because I thought the 9/11 Commission had hung our intelligence agencies out to dry. So I like to get that out of the way.

The book I wrote, Through Our Enemies’ Eyes, was basically an effort to tell Americans that the way we look at the world perhaps is not the way other people see us, and particularly those people who follow Osama bin Laden, Al Qaeda and other groups of that type.

I tried telling it from the perspective of an American, but I found out that I quickly became a renaissance man, something different to everyone. To some I was a liberal appeaser, to others a Bush hater, to some an Islamafile, the Blame America First spokesman, and my personal favorite was anti-Semitic right wing Buchananite weasel. [Laughter]

So what I thought I would do this morning, and it's something I've been working on—I tried it out first at Quantico with the Marines—is to try to give you a view of how the enemy sees the War on Terror four years on. And I wrote it in the style of a cable to Osama bin Laden and I'm an Ayman Al-Zawahiri-type in a format that the CIA uses from its station chiefs around the world. If there is a major event in the country where that gentleman or woman is stationed, whether it's a presidential election, a war, an assassination or an economic downturn, the Chief of Station sends back his overview of the situation.

So with that introduction I'll start. This is from, if you'll put yourself in the appropriate frame of mind, Al Qaeda's Chief of Station in Washington in control of all Al Qaeda operations inside the United States, all intelligence gathering operations. The subject is the “Bleed to Bankruptcy War,” which is what bin Laden describes the war against America as:

Brothers Osama and Iman, on this, the 10th Anniversary of you sending me to America and four years after the blessed September raid, I thought I should give you a summary appraisal of where Al Qaeda and its allies stand in regard to America's assumptions about and understanding of what our movement is motivated by and trying to do.

Let me first say that I have followed your directions to the letter. As a white American Muslim convert I and my family have lived an ordinary life here outside Washington. I have held the same well-paid engineering job for the last ten years, and as you told me, I have had no association with anyone who the Americans could remotely identify as an Islamic militant. I have, as you ordered me, told no one, not even my American wife, that I had the honor to serve God by fighting the communists in Afghanistan. As you directed, I have simply observed life, read widely in the American media and scholarly journals, and have followed closely the words of major political leaders.

After a decade, therefore, I thought it best to tell you what I see as the downside and the upside of our having decided to fight the United States in a war that Brother Osama describes as the “Bleed to Bankruptcy Struggle.”

First, the huge downside of this war ... We are, to put it simply, being hunted and attacked by the most powerful nation in the history of the world and despite the heavy personnel losses we have suffered, may God accept them as martyrs, the United States has not yet made the full destructiveness of its power felt.

Still, its people hate us with a vengeance for the blessed September raid and their efforts against us are powered by a wonderfully, even amazingly productive economy. In addition, the American population, although far from perfectly equitable is on the whole tolerant, including toward their Muslim fellow citizens.

At this point, brothers, we do not have the advantage here provided by the aggressively racist and anti-Islamic policies followed by most countries of the European Union. But on that score, as you have said Brother Iman, Allah will ensure that the cradles of Muslim homes will ultimately return Andalusia and all of Europe to the Muslim Ummah.

A final point of danger that I must stress is that American military, emotional, patriotic, and economic power has been neither harnessed nor focused. The latent power of this country is enormous and we have yet to fill its impact. God willing, the Americans will continue to slumber.

Next, the bounty of advantages God has given to us ... Brothers, believe me, the Americans are either soundly asleep, unwilling to face reality, or fundamentally stupid. Based on my observations and discussions they do not appear to have a clue as to what this war is about. This is, thanks to God, our greatest advantage.

As examples, I cite the following for your consideration. They do not understand our motivation. In American terms, they have not “figured out what makes us tick.” Their political leaders of both parties, as well as their media, military, economic and social elites continue to claim Al Qaeda hates America for what it believes and how it lives and not for what the United States does in the Islamic world. And you saw for yourself, Brothers, how Bush and Blair responded to July's blessed London expedition—like trained parrots they exclaimed that the terrorists hate us for our freedoms and not for what we do.

Honestly, Brothers, only God's love for Muslim believers could have kept American believers so dense for so long. It is worth thinking and worrying about how long this self-imposed ignorance can last, but on that score there is also good news.

The Americans are hamstrung by their own self-imposed political correctness. In some ways the American press is not as free as that permitted by that apostate Pakistani tyrant Musharraf. And even if the Americans came to understand that tens of millions of Muslims hate their foreign policy and its impact and not their society, it would take a near revolution in public discourse in this country to allow a frank debate about the issue of motivation.

Brothers, the indictment of the United States you have so clearly broadcast has put them at a disadvantage, for to discuss those points openly would be to breed a firestorm in US politics for each of them has become a holy of holies and political poison.

First, unqualified support for Israel ... To criticize this policy would be a martyrdom operation for any US politician. End of story. Our claims that Israel leads America around by the nose are true. If I was not living here I would not accept this contention, but in this country, thanks to God, criticism of Israel is not allowed. Men are called anti-Semitic and their careers are ruined if they criticize Israel. By God, Brothers, the apostate Mubarak is criticized more openly in Egypt than is Israel in America.

American support for China, Russia and India against Muslims ... To question this would mean losing face with other great powers. The Americans do not seem to know how much their support for Putin's genocide against Chechnyan Muslims hurts them in the Muslim world. Brothers, only the Lord of the Universe could have put Bush so squarely on the side of butchers Putin and Sharon.

Energy policy ... This is unbelievable, Brothers, but three decades after King Faisal's blessed embargo, US leaders are unwilling to install an energy policy that would remove Arab domination of their economy and those of its allies. One almost has to pinch himself to believe the good fortune God has given us in this regard. And just this summer, Brothers, the apostate Crown Prince Abdullah agreed to expand Saudi oil production by the end of the decade. Unbelievably, Bush welcomed this move which will only increase America's dependence on Muslim oil, allow increased demand and keep prices high.

Imagine, Brothers, with the steady rise in the price of a barrel of oil from $30 to $65, our blessed financial supporters can increase their support for us to unprecedented levels. And oh the irony, Brothers Osama and Iman, American parents are now paying exorbitant prices at the pump and we are receiving a portion of those windfall profits to help us kill their children in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere. Truly God is great.

Support for Arab allies ... We are safe on this one, Brothers. Energy dependence means that the talk of democracy building in the Islamic world will remain mostly talk. Indeed, pictures of Bush's recent hand-holding with the apostate tyrant Abdullah will tell Muslims all they need to know about US intentions.

American leaders also do not have the courage to tell their people that they have deliberately made a mockery of Americans' heritage of freedom—which so much of the Muslim world still admires—by supporting Arab tyrannies and police states for decades in Egypt, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Algeria and elsewhere.

And Brothers, while the Israeli lobby has a powerful influence on the American Congress and media, the Saudi lobby, thanks to God for whom all things are possible, is just as powerful and successful. The apostate al Sauds send their smiling English-speaking sons like Ambassador Bandar to America and Prince Turkey to Britain, and our infidel enemies believe they are dealing with the true leaders of the Arabian Peninsula. And even more, Brothers, the al Sauds buy the loyalty of retired US ambassadors, generals and intelligence officers to lobby the Congress and the White House on their behalf, and all the while, and for this all praise is due to the Lord of the Universe, our blessed Ulama in the land of the Prophet, peace be upon him, are using funds from the al Sauds to finance and preach the spread of God's word around the globe and nowhere more aggressively than under the nose of the Bush Administration right here in the United States.

Praise to God, Islam's huge coming generation of Muslim youth is being educated by our lama in what the Americans call Wahhabism, an Islamic theology more marshal and ruthless than the Salafism of Al Qaeda.

As this gift from God proceeds, the American elites take the al Saud's word as they would take a hallucinogenic drug. It denies them contact with reality and they believe, truly they do brothers, that Saudi Arabia is their ally, and all the while Saudi clerics are lighting a worldwide anti-American fire. God is great.

The presence of the American military in Muslim countries ... This is another safe area for us. As the Americans merrily build bases in the Islamic world they have no notion that they are voluntarily donning the cloak of 19th century European imperialism and energizing a new generation of Mujahideen fighting in God's path. US leaders have no conception of how the rehabilitation of this imperialist image hurts America and rallies Muslims to Brother Osama's view. May God keep the Americans ignorant of each Muslim's possession of an extremely long historical memory.

Brothers, I must make one more point about American policy. As I have said already, God has made America blind to the hatred their actions in the Islamic world are earning them, but Brothers, they also seem blind to the impact on Muslims of their behavior at Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, and toward the Holy Koran. The Americans treat these issues as public relations problems and do not see, thanks to God for their blindness, that their behavior is causing Muslims to hate Americans simply because they are Americans. Brother Osama has said that many Americans are good people and therefore hard to hate, but now may God be praised, their actions at Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, and toward God's Holy Book are making them hated as a people.

The Americans are unknowingly sacrificing a precious asset— their reputation for fairness and as a champion of freedom for all peoples. With God's grace, many more believers will come to Jihad when they learn to hate Americans as well as American policy. Brothers, only the power and goodness of the Lord of both worlds could have made the Americans take leave of their senses and dress the beloved Mujahideen in hoods, manacles and orange prison suits, put them in cages and at the end of dog leashes, and then make them watch the desecration of God's Book. Brothers, with these acts the Americans have become a major inspirer of Muslims to join our Jihad. God is truly great.

To go on, and by God Brothers, brace yourselves, I tell you that American leaders continue to preach to their people that our movement has nothing to do with our blessed religion, nothing to do with great Islam. Again, God is truly great. The American leaders call us criminals, gangsters, deviants, psychopaths, murderers. They tell their people that we represent only the lunatic fringe of the lunatic fringe of the Muslim world. And so important people like President Bush, Senator Kerry, President Clinton, and hundreds off others and their elites claim, “we will hunt them down one at a time and bring them to justice.” Pray God this continues for it ensures they will not recognize that our movement is large and growing; that your claim that US foreign policy is an attack on Islam resonates with hundreds of millions of Muslims, even if they disagree with Al Qaeda; and that you, Brothers Iman and Osama, are heroes and leaders in the Islamic world, especially among the youth. The Americans do not know that their identification of you as gangsters will offend all those who look up to you as good men and credible leaders in the otherwise leaderless Islamic world. May God let the Americans believe and preach that we are gangsters indefinitely.

And Brothers, the Americans have not found serious men to lead them. God has blessed us with this reality for at least 15 years. Four years after 9/11, American leaders have not closed their borders or found out who is in their country. Truly only God could have provided our movement with such a miracle. Amazingly, Brothers, the Americans' politicians lack the moral courage to first enforce the laws they themselves have passed. God is great. They refuse to find out who is in their country and to stop illegal immigration because, they loudly assert, America is a beacon of liberty to the world that we do not want to dim. Truly, Brothers, there is nothing more beneficial to us than having American politicians prefer to have the United States be seen as the glowing beacon of liberty rather than a country of enforced laws. Long may American maintain and enhance this glow of liberty which provides a light that warms, guides and shelters Al Qaeda and the many Jihadi groups who we have inspired around the world.

And Brothers, because what I have just described to you is hard to believe let me tell you what the newspapers here have reported about what America's non-serious leaders have said and done during just this past summer…

Four years after the blessed September raids, the American Secretary of Homeland Security has ordered a massive reorganization of his department's intelligence apparatus. And as you saw, this month's hurricane has shown their failure to improve emergency response and relief. Praise to God, Brothers, the Americans have gone back to the drawing board.

The leaders of the FBI have said their institution does not need expertise about Muslims, Islam and the Middle East. This view was supported by the FBI Director. May God keep him at his post, a man who has also failed to equip his organization with modern computer and communication systems. Truly, Brothers, we will derive comfort, safety and ultimately victory from the failure of these men to understand Islam and the motivation of the Mujahideen.

Finally, the CIA Director has said he had an excellent idea of Brother Osama's location. He said America will not act, however, because of respect for Pakistan's sovereignty. In other words, Brothers, the Americans are willing to let us kill as many Americans as we can rather than upset and anger their apostate agent Musharraf. I tell you, Brothers, only the Lord of the Universe could give us an enemy led by such incompetent, unserious men.

Another great advantage we have, Brothers, is that the Americans see our war against them only in terms of the detonation of explosives. There has been much proud crowing and preening here lately that America has not been attacked since the blessed 9/11 raid and therefore America is winning the war against Al Qaeda and its allies. May God keep them mired in this dream state.

War, Brothers, as you know, is so much more than detonating explosives, and the non-explosive attacks on America with God's permission have continued every day since 9/11. I have learned the following in conversations with my work colleagues and casual social acquaintances. It is true that these stories are mere anecdotes, but I believe they faithfully reflect the mood of their country.

We are slowly changing their way of life, Brothers. People here are very upset with increased difficulties of air travel, may God smile on the blessed 19 for this. And they're appalled by the security that requires the children of fourth grade classes to empty their pockets and clear a metal detector before entering an art museum. They are unsettled by the under-siege look of their capital city. One man said to me in wonder, “Roosevelt did not have this much protection in all of World War II.” Several men have said, too, that they were disturbed by the invasive and militarized nature of the security for the celebration of President Bush's inauguration.

The budget deficit is spiraling, Brothers. When we next attack inside the United States their economy will be weaker than on the Tuesday of God's glory. It is impossible to imagine the amount of money they have spent since 9/11 on what they call “homeland defense” and on the wars they are running in Afghanistan and Iraq, and when we next attack with God's permission, they will know that all of this spending has been for naught and we will tear the heart out of their economy and their morale as well.

Also, the American people are frightened. I have heard much discussion about their worries of more Al Qaeda attacks and their fears of the erosion of civil liberties. It is as you said in 2001, Brother Osama, Al Qaeda needs to do nothing to terrorize the Americans because their leaders and their media will and are performing our task. May God make their fears worse.

Finally Brothers, I close this too-long message with the great and happy news that the Americans do not appear to realize the wondrous opportunities they have opened for the Al Qaeda movement and all believers by invading Iraq. Praise to God for the unimaginable. The Americans have now occupied the three most holy sanctities in Islam— the Arabian Peninsula, the heart of Islamic civilization in Iraq, and Jerusalem.

Regarding Jerusalem, the Americans fail to understand that they are viewed by Muslims as interchangeable with the Israelis. Every bit of Muslim hatred for Israelis, praise be to God, also accrues to the Americans. By occupying our sanctities they have made Iraq a magnet for Mujahideen far more powerful than the blessed land of Jihad in Afghanistan ever was.

And Brother Osama, by occupying Iraq the Americans have made your prediction come true in the eyes of the Muslim Ummah. You said, “America will destroy all strong Muslim states,” and it did. You said, “America will destroy all threats to Israel,” and it did. You said, “America will seize Muslim oil,” and it did. You said, “America will destroy our religion in holy places,” and it did. You said, “America will replace God's law with blasphemous man-made laws,” and it did. Praise to the almighty God for showing you the truth, Brother Osama.

And Brothers, God has now properly validated your call for defensive Jihad in accordance with the terms of his blessed religion. In their intensely legalistic way, the Americans always have taken a delusionary solace from the fact that neither of you are trained Islamic scholars, convincing themselves that because you lacked a diploma no one could legitimately answer your call to Jihad. Now the Americans' invasion of Iraq has called forth fatwas from many well-credentialed Islamic scholars declaring the defense of Jihad in exactly the terms in which you have spoken. Praise be to God, the sustainer of both worlds.

Finally, the American leaders do not see that in Iraq they have opened to us a door to project our forces into Jordan, Turkey, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and thence onward to Lebanon and Israel. Brothers, the Americans see Iraq as honey to attract the Mujahideen so they can be killed. They fail to see that their military presence in Iraq not only gives us US targets, but that it is helping to satisfy Brother Osama's goal of securing contiguous safe haven from which to infiltrate and attack the apostate regimes of the Levant and Turkey. It will be too late, God willing, when the Americans discover that the flow of non-Iraqi Mujahideen through Iraq into the Levant, Turkey and the Gulf is far more dangerous to their interests than the Mujahideen entering Iraq from Syria and Jordan.

For now Brothers, thanks be to God, the good news outweighs the bad by a large measure. But we must remember that America is a powerful enemy and terrible in war when roused to a united and focused anger. Our advantage now lies in their failure to understand their enemy.

Part of this failure is due to their woeful lack of historical knowledge, both of our history and theirs, and the rest is due to the rampant moral cowardness that prevents debate over foreign policy because of the potential of such debate for devastating domestic political consequences.

The American leaders' combination of historical ignorance and moral cowardice are with God's support a potential war-winner for us. They cannot develop a strategy to defeat us as long as they do not understand us. However, always remember, dear Brothers, that we must wage war aggressively and viciously for we must not count on the American people remaining ignorant forever. They may some day, and may it be far in the future, recognize that their destiny is in their own hands. Only they can change the foreign policies that are powering our drive to God's victory.

Yes, Brother, God helps those who help themselves, and so we must continue to carry this war to the Americans while they remain asleep.

God bless you both.

Thank you. Questions? No questions? Tomatoes, cabbages?

Q: One of the tangible justifications Al Qaeda used for 9/11 with respect to the Koran was the presence of US troops in Saudi Arabia. Given that we have silently moved our troops out of that country, is there any evidence of windfall within the Islamic world?

Mr. Scheuer: No, I think on that particular occasion we pulled the wool over our own eyes. Within the eyes of Muslims, the Prophet's home is the Arabian Peninsula, not Saudi Arabia. There are no States in the theological sense on the Arabian Peninsula. We simply moved from Saudi Arabia to Qatar and Kuwait, which is still on the Prophet's homeland. It's kind of been treated, at least within the websites and the internet journals of Al Qaeda and its allies as something of a joke that points to the depth of the American ignorance about Islam.

Q: Carmen bin Laden, a sister-in-law of Osama bin Laden, believes Al Qaeda is in no hurry to attack US soil, but rather can bide their time. Do you think this is true, or have we just been successful in actively fighting off another attack?

Mr. Scheuer: I think we have done a wonderful job of taking out Al Qaeda leaders, but we still categorize Al Qaeda as a terrorist group. Our leaders from both parties have a lot to say about seizing 5,000 or 6,000 Al Qaeda fighters, which seems counter-intuitive—I'm not sure there's a terrorist group that has 4,000 or 5,000 fighters.

The one difference between Al Qaeda and the United States, Al Qaeda and the West, Islam and the West, is the tremendous sense of patience on the enemy's side. When they talk about another attack soon in the United States they're speaking of anywhere from a year to a decade. Our idea of soon is this afternoon or next week or October 1st at the latest.

I think we have a very high body count against Al Qaeda. I'm not sure that's a measure of effectiveness. And I, frankly, believe that as long as the borders are open, as long as we don't know who's in our country I can't imagine that we can assume that we've deterred them from doing anything. I think the most we can assume is they're not ready.

Q: How would you characterize the percentage of what we might call “radical” Islamists versus the average Islamist?

Mr. Scheuer: I think there are not probably very many who are going to pick up a gun or drive a car to kill us, although I think that number clearly is increasing as in Iraq we have more car bombs every month than we did in the past 30 years in the rest of the world.

During the last decade, we've had very reputable Western firms doing polling in the Islamic world, and the results are not important in my mind about whether Osama bin Laden or President Bush or President Clinton is more popular. What's important is two things ... The question that shows that generally in Muslim countries 85 percent or more of the population hate American foreign policy and its impact; and the polls show at the same time usually majorities, sometimes large ones, that admire the way Americans live, the basic equity of our society, the ability of parents to provide housing and employment and education for their children.

So I think really what we're looking at is worrying about the next generation and how it shapes up in the Islamic world. I think that generation is much more of a problem than the one we face now.

Q: Following along with that, how do we communicate better what the average American really is like to the Islamic world?

Mr. Scheuer: The trouble is we have frittered away all of the good faith we had in the Islamic world as the preeminent destroyer of empires in the world.

After World War II, the Islamic world saw us as forcing Churchill to dismantle the British Empire. They saw Eisenhower interfere at Suez in 1956. They saw even President Reagan arm the Mujahideen to fight the Soviets. We frittered that away. And the idea that somehow we're going to talk the Islamic world out of being angry at us as if they were the poor unwashed masses who simply don't understand what we're up to is nonsense.

The fact is I believe that whether they support Osama bin Laden and his like or not, the Muslim world, unfortunately, has a fairly good idea of what we're up to, at least their perception of what we're up to. And that's what bin Laden talks about. We're after their oil, we're willing to allow the Israelis to do what they want to do. We have people in the Arabian Peninsula. We invaded the heart of Islamic civilization.

The problem is not that they don't know what we stand for, but that they believe they do. And bin Laden had the extraordinary good fortune of arising and declaring war on us simultaneously with the advent of easily available internet and Arabic satellite television. So when our public diplomacy says we're really good guys and we're out there trying to help you and to establish democracy, what they see on their television is the film from southern Afghanistan or from Gaza and the West Bank or from Tal Afar. It's very hard to fight against those images with words.

So I think there's going to have to be some kind of a tangible change in United States policy of some description before we even get a hearing in the Islamic world, with all respect for the new Secretary of Public Diplomacy.

Q: In your opinion, what is the impact of Syed Qutab’s writings on the Al Qaeda world view?

Mr. Scheuer: It's important to see bin Laden in the continuum of Islamic history. He is the heir of a long tradition of people who believed that Christian society, Christian civilianization, was an enemy of Islam, starting with Ibn Taymiya in the 13th Century.

Syed Qutab is an Egyptian who believed that the West was an evil place and was a threat to Islamic history. He lived in the '40s until I think the early '60s when Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser killed him.

He was followed by Abdullah Azam, the Palestinian firebrand who really rejuvenated the concept of Jihad in the Muslim world. And bin Laden is next in line. He's not nearly the Islamic scholar as his predecessors, but for the time being he is the one who is the freest to speak.

I hope that covers it.

Q: I just want to make a comment that I've read both of your books and I highly encourage anybody here who hasn't read them to read them. They're very good. My first question involves the two books. Basically it appeared to me that there was a tremendous difference in tone between the first book and the second book Imperial Hubris. If that's correct, could you explain to me why?

Mr. Scheuer: The first book was completed in the summer of 1999 and the Agency didn't want to release it because they were afraid it was going to offend Muslims. They got less sensitive after 9/11. But I had the feeling from first-hand experience, really, with very senior policymakers, that they didn't get it, that bin Laden was not the same kind of character we had seen before. I also felt that they were so addicted to information that was classified, secret, top secret, whatever, that they were ignoring what the man said. So the first book was sort of a biography of bin Laden, thematically arranged in an effort to show both the policymaker, but more especially the American people, that this information is out there. That we've never had an enemy who was more determined to tell us what he was mad at, why he was mad at it, what he was going to do about it, and then matching words to deeds. I tried to keep it in a scholarly tone and it was very heavily footnoted and sourced.

The second book came after 9/11 because I thought the situation hadn't changed. When I heard after 9/11 Mr. Clinton, Mr. Bush, Mr. Cheney—both parties basically kept telling us that this had everything to do with our society and nothing to do with what we do in the world—I wrote the second book. Its tone was much more polemic. I wanted to try to make an impression. I also wanted to get it to the American people because I think they're going to have to start thinking for themselves on this issue if we're going to protect the United States as we need to.

The book sold very well, but I've had zero impact with any kind of political people in either party, in the Congress or the Executive Branch. That's basically the difference between the two books.

Q: We're told to continue on with our lives as normal, shop 'til you drop, continue on as if there's no change in threat level. What is it going to take to wake the American people up? I don't see a tremendous amount of what I would call group sacrifice, pardon the expression. I mean there's sacrifice going on in certain sections of the country among certain people, particularly the military, military families and the like, but not a national sacrifice like we saw during let's say World War II. What's it going to take?

Mr. Scheuer: I think leadership. We got to 9/11 because we had a set of leaders who refused to do what their duty required them to do in terms of managing the intelligence community. I think we're in the same position now. I have never felt comfortable thinking that I'm any smarter than the average American or as smart as the people we elect, but they behave as if they are totally immune to the reality of the enemy we face. What is it going to take?

I can tell you from a very slim perspective of my own career, we thought that certainly after someone declared war on us in 1996 that we would act. And we thought after the East African bombings when the two embassies were destroyed, we would act and that leaders would level with the American people. We certainly thought after the Cole that it would happen. Then again we thought after 11 September it was certain that we would put paid to Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden. And we haven't.

I'm afraid what it's going to take is just thousands and thousands and thousands of dead Americans here at home to make Americans realize that they're being sold a bill of goods.

I also am afraid that as long as our leaders believe they're elected to be the leaders of the world and somehow they have a responsibility to every person and not primarily Americans, that we're going to be in tough shape.

I look at it as a leadership issue. It’s certainly an issue where Americans need to demand that their leaders protect us first, something they haven't done over the course of my 25 years at the Agency in either party.

Q: There appears to be an entire movement, obviously now inflamed, incited against the West getting on the job training (OJT), if you will, in Iraq and what I see is the possibility of these Jihadis coming back into Western Europe, coming to North America and applying their OJT on the streets here, in the cities here. We haven't seen that yet. Do you have any comments on that?

Mr. Scheuer: I think Al Qaeda will not turn to the kind of Intifada activities that occurred in Israel. They're playing a much bigger game. People portray bin Laden as an apocalyptic guy who wants to destroy our country and occupy Rhode Island and make us all Muslims, and it's not true. What he wants to do is get us as far out of the Middle East as he can. That's his goal. So his next attack will be larger than the last which is pretty well a decade-long documented practice.

The thing we need to fear in Iraq—and I have to say that I don't know anything about Saddam Hussein or weapons of mass destruction or the threat that they posed—but by occupying Iraq we put ourselves in control of the three holiest places in Islam. Whether or not Muslims like Osama bin Laden, and even if they hate Osama bin Laden, they're going to resent us deeply, especially the young, for occupying their sanctities.

Bin Laden has always considered himself to be the instigator of Jihad around the world. He's always said Al Qaeda is the vanguard, but we can't do this ourselves. Although it doesn't come up on American screens very often, I think the fire they're trying to light is being lit. If you look in the Philippines and if you look in parts of the Pacific, if you look in a country like Bangladesh, in Northern Nigeria, in Southern Thailand…all of these are local grievances, but they're being addressed violently. I think at some point we're going to see groups entirely unassociated with Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda and their allies taking just the kind of actions that you suggest. I think Europe is a particularly good venue for them to do that.

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