2024 Air, Space & Cyber: ‘Deterring Russia in the Arctic’ — Expert Perspectives from U.S. and Nordic Military Leaders

The “Deterring Russia in the Arctic” panel at AFA’s 2024 Air, Space & Cyber Conference featured Gen. James B. Hecker, commander of U.S. Air Forces in Europe; Lt. Gen. Case Cunningham, commander of Alaskan Command, U.S. Northern Command; Maj. Gen. Jonas Wikman, Air Chief of the Swedish Air Force; and Maj. Gen. Øivind Gunnerud, Chief of the Royal Norwegian Air Force. The panel, held on September 17, was moderated by Maj. Gen. Larry Stutzriem, USAF (Ret.), director of research at AFA’s Mitchell Institute for Aerospace Studies. Watch the video below:

Panel Moderator: Maj. Gen. Larry Stutzriem, USAF (Ret.), Director of Research, AFA’s Mitchell Institute for Aerospace Studies:

Well, welcome to all. Again, I’m with the Mitchell Institute, and I just want to give you a pre-commercial. Stop by our booth, sign up, everything’s free that we produce and distribute. But today, we’ve got a tremendous topic, Deterring Russia in the Arctic. And we know, if you’re not aware already, that the Arctic is rapidly growing in strategic importance, and we have receding ice because of climate change and that produces more economical sea lanes than we have today. It’s also providing access to natural resources, and that’s quite profitable. And at the same time, the Arctic has always been an avenue of potential attack, be it from missiles, or bombers, or nuclear submarines. So, in an era of great power competition, Arctic security becomes a front burner, imperative.

So here we are today. Russia has significantly expanded its military presence and activities in the region. It’s leveraged its long Arctic coastline to project power and threaten the interests of the United States and our allies. And deterring Russia’s use of the Arctic to impede the interest of the United States and its allies, we have represented today, is a big challenge. In particular, it requires close collaboration among the NATO nations, in particular, the NATO Arctic nations, and perhaps new initiatives may be proposed today or are needed in the future, especially with the recent expansion of NATO membership.

To explore these critical issues, it’s a pleasure to host a distinguished group of us and allied Air power leaders. They all have rich experience and expertise in Arctic security. First, we’re pleased to welcome from the Swedish Air Force, Major General Jonas Wikman, from the Royal Norwegian Air Force. Jonas, you’re already a star here in America. That’s fantastic. We also have Chief of the Royal Norwegian Air Force, Major Oivind Gunnerud. Then, of course, we know General Scorch Hecker, Commander of US Air Forces in Europe and Allied Air Command. [inaudible 00:03:10]. And we also have Lieutenant General Case Cunningham, Basket. He’s got three hats. He’s Commander of Alaskan Command, Alaskan NORAD region, and 11th Air Force. And so welcome, Generals.

So today, what we’re going to do, we don’t have a lot of time, but what we’re going to do is three things. One is talk about what Russia is doing. Number two, what do we need to do from an air and space power perspective to better deter Russia. Then we’ll peel it down a little bit into some specific issues we’ve got going. So, for all the panelists, and we’ll start with General Hecker and move down the line, we know that Russia’s taken significant steps to increase its presence and capabilities to project power into the Arctic and through the Arctic. So, I’d like to ask you, what are some of the examples of these increased military capabilities and activities and what might be most concerning to you at this time? General Hecker.

Gen. James B. Hecker, Commander, U.S. Air Forces in Europe:

Okay, well thanks, Larry, appreciate that and I appreciate AFA for the opportunity to talk to the crowd. And I’d really like to thank Junior, who just took over the Norwegian Chief of Staff of the Air Force two weeks ago, so pretty good to be up here this quickly. And then, of course, Basket. Basket only took over here about five weeks ago, so he’s pretty new in the seat as well. So, it’s great to have you all here and great to have you on the panel. A lot of things concern us when it comes to Russia and to the Arctic. When you look at their northern fleet, you talked about that the ice is receding and opening up sea lanes. They have 55 icebreakers; they have 37 surface vessels, and they have eight nuclear submarines. So, a pretty big threat.

When you look at the air, what we’re seeing that they’re doing is they have some runways on the north side of their coast on some islands and they’re extending those runways so they can use them with their long-range aviation bombers. They’re also increasing their domain awareness by adding radars, by adding satellites that they haven’t had before. So, they’re getting a lot more information in that domain way up north than they’ve had before. So that concerns us. They’re also doing a lot more flying up in the north. I think Basket will probably talk about it, but they recently did their first bomber flight with China in the Alaska ADIZ. So that’s concerning.

The other things that is concerning applies to all of Russia, but it also applies to the Arctic and that’s the proliferation of using one-way UAVs. This has really taken off recently. If you remember at the start of the war, they didn’t really have one-way UAVs, then they bought some Shahed 136s from Iran and then they built their own factory in Russia and they’re producing them themselves and then they’re producing a lot more. And when I get my reports daily, sometimes it’s 30, sometimes it’s 60, sometimes it’s 90 of these that are going a day. And then you add that to the cruise missiles that they already have, and then you look at what North Korea and Iran are providing them in the terms of ballistic missiles, it’s a threat not only for the Arctic, but really, for everybody. And we got our eyes on all of those things.

Panel Moderator: Maj. Gen. Larry Stutzriem, USAF (Ret.):

Very good. Basket.

Lt. Gen. Case A. Cunningham, Commander, Alaskan Command, U.S. Northern Command:

Well, thanks. Echo the thanks to AFA for the opportunity and the privilege. Just to start with a little bit of levity, I’ve done a couple of AFA panels over the year, but this is my first time on the big kids’ stage, so bear with me on that. But it is a huge honor to be up here with General Hecker and then two NATO air chiefs. So I’m, obviously, honored and humbled by that. Three quick things I’ll hit. First is the decoding of the three hats, just to give you a sense for the perspective that I bring to the conversation today. The first is from an Alaskan command perspective. So that is a subordinate unified command to NORTHCOM. So joint headquarters responsible to General Guillot for the synchronization campaigning and integration in the Alaska theater of operations. The second is Alaska NORAD region. Also answering to General Guillot, the aerospace warning control mission that NORAD has, one of the three regions, Alaska NORAD region is one. When you see the intercept in the news of the Russian aircraft, that is by, with, and through the Alaska NORAD region hat.

And then the third hat is 11th Air Force and that is a Pacific Air Force’s hat. So General Schneider is my boss there. So I have the benefit that both of my four-star bosses have been on the stage today, so I get to echo what they said. But in that role, not only am I in Pacific Air Forces, but I’m also a force provider through General Schneider and the organized training equipped to a lot of the Alaska and Arctic mission set. So that just gives you a sense for where I come from. Geography, just really quick, Stutz hit the ice and the melting. So from a perspective sitting in Alaska, one, the top third of Alaska is above the Arctic circle. So that makes the United States an Arctic nation by definition. Clearly, we have a lot of interest there.

But with the ice melting, the Bering Strait becomes an even more strategic place than it has been in the past because the number of ice-free days in the summer across the Northern Sea route that travels across the top of Russia is becoming more and more, each season, which means the shortest distance between Europe and Asia is across that Northern Sea route. So that’s where you see a lot of the activities occurring. And then the third thing is with respect to the threat, and General Hecker hit it, but the most concerning thing, and I’m going to dip my toe in the PRC water early here is their cooperation, Russia’s cooperation with the PRC and not only flying the combined bomber patrols, that was the eighth one that they’ve flown of late, but the first one in the Northcom AOR. And then the second piece of that is that Russia is providing access to China.

So those bombers, the H-6K’s that took off from a Russian air base. So that access is significant. And of course, the cruise missiles that could be carried. Now let’s be clear, they were not in that kind of profile, but that could be carried by those platforms are a threat as General Guillot covered earlier today. So, thanks again for the opportunity.

Panel Moderator: Maj. Gen. Larry Stutzriem, USAF (Ret.):

You bet. Jonas.

Maj. Gen. Jonas Wikman, Air Chief, Swedish Air Force:

Well, Larry, and everybody else, I really appreciate coming here to this conference being an Air Chief for the Swedish Air Force, which is still in the middle of the integration process and trying to figure out our way forward with allies. Coming from a place with interoperable ways of operating, but now moving into allied territory and that means a lot. And the importance for me to be here and to have this kind of discussion is great. So, thank you very much. I really do appreciate it. I think a lot of the capabilities for Russia’s side has been covered already. Scorch mentioned a few of them. I think if I would like to add something to that kind of argument is that, so Russia never left Arctic. I mean, we’re talking about Russia increases their capabilities, one thing that is important for us to remember, I think, is that Russia has always been prioritizing that region and invested in civil and military infrastructure, civil infrastructure with ULUs.

So, I think that they are used to operating there, they’re prepared to operate in that kind of environment, and they are operating so they are in place. I think the Arctic region is a difficult area to operate in. I think, for us, we have to start thinking about when we move our focus further up north, how do we do that? How do we get in place and how do we operate to face those kind of future challenges?

Panel Moderator: Maj. Gen. Larry Stutzriem, USAF (Ret.):

Yeah, very good.

Maj. Gen. Øivind Gunnerud, Chief Royal Norwegian Air Force:

Okay. Thank you so much for the invitation, as well. If I might add a few things, we should not forget that the Arctic region is the biggest arena for testing of new systems in Russia. And that happens right in our backyard, actually, and we’re trying to keep track of it. Sometimes, it’s announced and sometimes not, but it’s a lot of testing activity going on. And we also see what [inaudible 00:12:14] pointed at, a lot of investment in development in infrastructure. We see that close to Norway at the Kola Peninsula, the Franz Josef Land and so on. They’re strengthening their strategic capabilities, that’s for sure. One thing I like to mention is that we have also seen in our part of the Arctic, up in the northeast in Norway, we have had some electronic warfare jamming, GPS jamming going on in our neighbors and we have civilian airports up there, as well. So that’s also taking place. And if you ask me what I find most disturbing, Russia is an Arctic country and they have, as we all know, they’re both willing to and capable of attacking a neighboring country.

Panel Moderator: Maj. Gen. Larry Stutzriem, USAF (Ret.):

Well said. Well, let me move a little bit into a discussion of resourcing for what we’ve talked about today in terms of deterring, having the forces ready to go or posture ready to deter Russia. And we know for a few decades the Arctic has not been the priority. We have a new Arctic strategy, and we know that we’ve got a design based upon a few essentials. So, I want to ask you that, especially General Hecker, Wikman, and Gunnerud, I had like to ask you what essentials do we need to keep in mind when we develop and sustain forces, posture, to deter Russia?

Gen. James B. Hecker:

Well, I think the number one deterrence that we have is the alliance. February 24th, 2022, when Putin invaded Ukraine, we had 30 NATO nations in the alliance. Now, we have 32. And it was pretty cool. We got to do the opening ceremony for Sweden not too long ago. And then, obviously, we got Finland, as well. So, we got two more and guess what? Both of them are in the Arctic and they bring an experience that the rest of us don’t have in NATO, except Norway and some of the others. So, we’re really learning a lot from them. And during the time that Finland and Sweden were not in NATO, they were doing agile combat employment, something that we hadn’t done for a long time and we’re learning a lot from both of them.

Matter of fact, Norway took some F-35s and landed them on a highway in Finland not too long ago. And I called up the predecessor to you, Snake, and I said, “Hey, can you tell me how you did that?” And we just did that, the US, from F-35s out of Lakenheath and we landed, got a turn, got some hot pit refueling and took off again. So that experience is just great. So not only since the war started did, we get two more NATO allies, but we also went from six nations that were spending 2% of their GDP to 23 nations that are spending 2% of their GDP. So that’s a significant increase and we need to take that money and use it wisely to help deter in the Arctic.

The other things that have happened is we had roughly, I think, four or five nations since the invasion that have decided to buy F-35s. That will bring us up to a total of 700 F-35s by 2032 in Europe, which is good. And then, we’ve rallied the support of, really, the world and Secretary of Defense Austin and has been able to do this through a thing called the Ukrainian Defense Contact Group. And this is a group that he convenes quite a bit. We just had one in Ramstein here not too long ago, and it’s typically 50 ministers of defense that come together and you have, at the last one, we have President Zelensky speak to him, and then you have all their air chief as well as their CHAD speak to him and say, “Here’s how it’s going, here’s the things that we need.” And then the countries will take that and figure out what they can give them. He’s done that 24 times in the two-and-a-half-year period of the war. So that’s significant.

If you think, how many times did Putin grab 50 nations and meet 24 times during the time of the war, not. And he would only be able to do about three or four. And then you add in the exercises that we do, whether that’s the Arctic Response Exercise at Norway kind of hosts all the time. We have another one that’s coming up next month with a new one. It’s both counter anti-access, aerial denial, as well as integrated air and missile defense. It’s called The Ramstein Flag. We’re going to do that next month and that’s going to be several of the NATO nations getting together, figuring out how we do that and do a live fly. And we didn’t just jump right in and say, “Let’s do this live exercise.” We planned it out.

We started with a weapons and tactics conference where we invited all the NATO nations in and we took a look at how we would do this and we let the senior captains and the majors who actually know what they’re doing come up with a game plan and then you got to brief us directly as opposed to filtering it through colonels and stuff on the way up so we can actually come up with a plan that we can do this exercise, and then we exercise that plan. And then now, we’re going to actually do it with a live fly. So, all these things, I think, provide a deterrence, but I think the backbone behind all of it is the alliance.

Panel Moderator: Maj. Gen. Larry Stutzriem, USAF (Ret.):

Yeah, very well said. Jonas.

Maj. Gen. Jonas Wikman:

Yeah, General Hecker, I think, makes the most important point. That is the true deterrence is the alliance. And I think to everybody in this room, it is pretty clear that true air power and true power comes from combining assets, combining strengths, covering for weaknesses amongst partners and allies. And we need to live that motto. And now, Sweden and Finland joining NATO is two more countries. We will add capabilities, we will add a lot of things, but I think what we’ll also add is changing the geography in the Arctic completely. So, there’s going to be an area or one complete AOR for NATO and alliance. That means a huge thing when it comes to the deterrence. And that enables new plans, that enables new plans for us. And I think for us achieving true deterrence in the Arctic, it’s going to make use of that new geography, combine our strengths, make new plans and exercise those plans. Because true deterrence to Russia comes from showing, demonstrating that we are an alliance and that we know what we are doing.

Panel Moderator: Maj. Gen. Larry Stutzriem, USAF (Ret.):

Yeah. Very well said.

Maj. Gen. Øivind Gunnerud:

Yeah. In addition to one alliance, which is, of course, the most important thing, I think showing force is important, like you mentioned, through exercises and other things. And through that, we will deter. And it is important, because by showing force, we are showing that we are in power. And the word power is really important in Russian culture and in Russia. That’s something they understand. Anything else but power is a sign of weakness, and weakness can be exploited. So, by standing together and doing exercises, like for instance, operations like the bomber task force and that we also go out and communicate that so that they know what we’re doing, I find, and I think is really important.

Another thing on the Nordic side, of course, to take the responsibility that we should do up there because we are Nordic country are more or less NATO in North and that we stay together. And the Nordic countries is like a peninsula up there and if you would try to go from Norway through Europe by car, you actually had to drive through Russia. So, the only way to get there is by air or by sea. But now, we are united and that’s good. And that also means we have a united airspace over the Northern Europe with Sweden and Finland being NATO members and that airspace is huge. So those are things, I think, matters when it comes to deterrence.

Panel Moderator: Maj. Gen. Larry Stutzriem, USAF (Ret.):

Very good. So, something that, for the last three decades, at least, and I say three decades, we’ve been talking about interoperability in Europe and NATO, and I mentioned earlier, General Gunnerud, I flew against three decades ago with your F-16s at Boda, which is transforming as we speak today. And then, Sweden, of course, has hosted already a Marine Corps deployment of F-35s and other activities. So, I’m curious from your perspective of the two Nordic nations, this whole issue of interoperability. Where are we with it, where we need to go so that you can bring the most power to the alliance?

Maj. Gen. Øivind Gunnerud:

Well, I can start out by saying that cooperation among the Nordic countries has been going on for years. And in particular, after 2008, we did something. We kind of tore down the airspace boundary between Norway, Sweden, and Finland, and we established what we called cross-border training. And on a daily basis, we would take out from our bases, we would meet in the middle, we would do scenarios, tactics training, and we would land at our bases. So, we’ve really been training together for a long time. But now, by Sweden and Finland being NATO members, all of this also becomes NATO airspace, as I mentioned. And the area we have up there is large and it can facilitate really great exercises. And by that, we can, of course, show force.

And just to give an example, many here, I guess, have conducted training around Nellis or even out of Luke, the Barry Goldwater’s training areas in the southern part of Arizona. And since I was an exchange pilot in Tucson for three years, I know those areas. They’re great. But if you multiply them by five, that’s what you get when you combine the airspaces around Norway’s coast and Northern Sweden and Finland. It’s a great area.

Other things we have been doing on, of course, now that Sweden and Finland is a NATO member, C4IS is easier for them to hook up on the infrastructure we have, which is important and good. And in addition to that, I kind of think that we can also link together our surveillance radars. By that, we get a better essay of what’s going on. So, a lot of good things happening because we are united up in among the Nordic countries.

Panel Moderator: Maj. Gen. Larry Stutzriem, USAF (Ret.):

Very good.

Maj. Gen. Jonas Wikman:

Yeah, I think being an unallied nation for entire lifespan of the Swedish Air Force, 98 years, I always get the questions about interoperability and are we ready to join NATO and join the alliance? And you don’t have to be worried about that. Interoperability has been our strategy for a long time. So, we are interoperable, and we are ready. And as mentioned, becoming a NATO member means that a lot of those hurdles or a lot of those obstacles for us joining forces together and combining our forces up in the north and overall, within the alliance has been teared down and we can move forward on that. And I think, but there is still potential when it comes to operating together. I think we are interoperable. We are following every standard, but now we have to take next step in combining our forces, like I said before, combining strengths, combining, in our example, I might take one example that is Sweden is operating the Gripen fighter.

We have F-35 fighters in Norway, Finland, and Denmark. And I think the true strength from that comes when we are fully enabled to combine the Gripen strength with the F-35 strength and cover for the weaknesses and also combine our way to operate in Sweden. So, I always like to tell that I have offered, and I will continue to offer parking spaces in the Swedish forest. So, we disperse our forces for survival in the Swedish forest, and there is a few parking spaces open for US F-35s, or any other aircraft, for that part. Our first [inaudible 00:26:12] for the Swedish armed forces. So, we are ready to do that, and I think we need to take the next step, because again, air power in the north will come from us combining our assets and showing and demonstrating that there is strength of that.

Panel Moderator: Maj. Gen. Larry Stutzriem, USAF (Ret.):

If I could just follow that up with, Jonas, even as a new member into NATO, you’ve already integrated people into the staff, so command and control planning, you’re already putting your folks into that process, correct?

Maj. Gen. Jonas Wikman:

Yes. We’ve been a partner for NATO for a long time. So, we are integrated in most areas. When we became members, we also got access to the defense planning part of it. So, we could plan in parallel before, but we can plan together now and what we need, what we are into right now, making sure that we combine plans. But other than that, we are fully integrated and ready to go.

Panel Moderator: Maj. Gen. Larry Stutzriem, USAF (Ret.):

Yeah, fantastic. Well, I’ve got to get Basket Cunningham, General Cunningham involved in this because it’s not an easy environment to operate in. And can you talk a little bit about the challenge of Arctic operations? You do this every day. And then General Gunnerud, maybe you can follow up a little bit on that.

Lt. Gen. Case A. Cunningham:

Sure. I’ll say the most obvious one last to keep you on the edge of your seats and that’s the weather.

Panel Moderator: Maj. Gen. Larry Stutzriem, USAF (Ret.):

It sucks.

Lt. Gen. Case A. Cunningham:

But the two quick ones I’ll hit before this, and I’ll weave in some airmen stories here too. May have a chance to talk a little bit more about this, but domain awareness is a challenge in the Arctic, and this is related to the second, and that is the geography of the Arctic. So just quick scaling for you, Alaska itself is about a fifth the size of the entire lower 48, as we say in Alaska. And the Arctic is 1.5 times the size of the United States. So that just gives you a sense of the scale. And so, from an airman story perspective, when you see a picture of an airplane on a wing of a Russian bomber somewhere in the Alaska AIDZ, essentially that whole chain was flying an intercept from taking off in about Denver and intercepting an aircraft in about Washington, DC for a scale of the geography. So that takes an entire awesome force of airmen that pull that all together across the tanker force, the AWACS force, the ground crews, the maintainers that are making all of that possible.

Then the last one is the weather that all hit. Obviously, the Arctic has some challenges from a weather perspective. It came up earlier today with General Guillot, but our professionals who operate in Alaska day in and day out and the wings that are in Alaska steady state are experts at this like nobody’s business and they’ve learned the trade well. We find that those who come to Alaska in the winter have lessons to learn out of what that means. So, if we are to be a force that is operating in the Arctic, learning those skill sets of being outside in -20 degrees and generating jets on the flight line is something for us to learn in a challenge.

Maj. Gen. Øivind Gunnerud:

Yeah, I like to add on a few things about the weather because that’s an important thing, of course. And as everybody knows, the tropopause is lower up there in the Arctic, meaning the thunderstorms do not go that high up, they don’t become that big. However, they are embedded all the time. So, you will experience icing. Now, inland dry, cold climates has its challenges, but what we see in Norway, we have a lot of the coastal climates above and below the freezing level all the time, so you have slippery runways, and that’s one of the reason why Norway is one of the few countries that have procured drag chutes on our F-35s. You do not need a drag chute all the time, but it’s a nice thing to have in case the runways are really slippery. And of course, it’s night ops during the wintertime, so you better have your night flying skills up there, that’s for sure.

But two more things I like to mention that is special about the Arctic, of course, one is the Northern Fleet, and the Air Force is up there because we meet them all the time. On average, per year, we intercept Russians once or twice per week and we see their ships all the time. And since the climate is that harsh, search and rescue is important. So, for instance, when we have exercises going on up there or there are different [inaudible 00:31:17] task force passing by or something, we allocate and relocate search and rescue assets to make sure that in case something should happen, we’ll be able to assist.

Panel Moderator: Maj. Gen. Larry Stutzriem, USAF (Ret.):

And I have to say from my background, I spent a short period of time doing some weather on the US side. We’ve got a tremendous program to replace defense weather satellites called EWS. And if there’s any program folks in here, please, proliferate that we need a couple dozen of those to provide the kind of refresh rates we need for the war fighter and to get the now-cast, the short-term forecasting we need. But if I could move on a little bit and talk about that domain awareness, General Cunningham, you brought that up, and I’d like to ask you in general Hecker about how important that is and what kind of improvements we need in terms of understanding what the Russians are doing, how they’re postured. A big part of that is atmospheric sensing, maritime sensing, but it may go beyond that. What improvements do we need for that?

Gen. James B. Hecker:

The easiest way and cheapest way to get domain awareness up in the Arctic is to share information. So, a lot of countries have a lot of different capabilities. The two that just joined us has a lot more. And if we share that information, that’s going to give us a lot more than we have and we are already doing that and we have agreements to even do it more so, so that will help out, but that is not going to be enough in itself so we’re going to need to look at other ways to do that. And we’ve been experimenting with MQ9s, with Global Hawk, Trident, going up further north in the Arctic circle, which we haven’t done in the past.

I was talking with industry and we’re looking at other ways of doing that. High altitude balloons is one way. They have ISR aircraft, drone aircraft now that have solar panels on them that will work out in the summer, probably not so great in the winter. So, we’re exploring those avenues, as well. And then we’re just going to have to go off some existing capabilities that we have and improve on them, like over-the-horizon radars, investing in more radars, looking at different passive ways to be able to sense the environment and do it that way because this stuff is not cheap. For any one country, there’s no way you can do it. So, we have to do it together.

And then, we have to look at innovative solutions like we’ve seen out of the Ukraine, and these are solutions that go after those low-altitude targets, which are 200 feet and they’re proliferating, and how do we see those. And they’ve come up with the Sky Fortress system, which is an acoustic sensor that is relatively cheap. And those can not only be placed on land, but they put them in the Black Sea. So, they can go in the sea, as well. And we can use that to sense the low-altitude ones, which are really hard to see because of the curvature of the earth. So, I think we have to explore all of those. But I think the big thing is, we need to be integrating this by design when we buy new things as opposed to making them interoperable after we buy them. So, let’s make sure our countries buy the right thing that are already interoperable. And then, let’s take some lessons learned on cheap alternatives from Ukraine that we’ve learned over the years.

Panel Moderator: Maj. Gen. Larry Stutzriem, USAF (Ret.):

Yep. Good.

Lt. Gen. Case A. Cunningham:

Echo General Hecker there. I’ll just add a couple of quick ones. One is that you mentioned the DOD Arctic strategy up front. For those of you that have read it, the three E’s or the tenets of it, the first E is enhanced domain awareness, so recognition at the highest levels of the Department of Defense, how important and critical this is. For General Guillot and Northcom and NORAD, it is one of his top priorities. And again, just to tell a quick airman story on this, and General Hecker mentioned information sharing and how critical it is. We know that part of information sharing is the communication piece. So, some of the things that airmen in Alaska have done across the total force platform agnostic command and control, getting real-time information in the cockpit, Arctic in some of our KC135 tankers so that they can connect the kind of information that folks need at the forward edge as they’re running and executing these intercepts are key. So that kind of innovation at the airman level, as General Hecker said, has such great opportunities as we explore the space on domain awareness. So, thanks for that, sir.

Panel Moderator: Maj. Gen. Larry Stutzriem, USAF (Ret.):

Very good. Curious, the other two generals, as far as domain awareness, we’re talking about. From your perspective, improvements needed for that? You have a great interest also in the maritime domain, my understanding is, is that correct?

Maj. Gen. Jonas Wikman:

Yeah, I think from our perspective, I think, but again, I have to echo what’s been said earlier. I think information sharing, we see that very clearly. Information sharing and sharing the understanding of the information is also, to us, very important in this. We have a history; we are living in that area and have never stopped looking and trying to understand the situation in the north. And now, with the membership, it’s possible for us to share information. We’re already sharing radar information, but we need to share information across domains and share within the alliance as well, as well as understanding that. But I think that is to understand the situation overall, it’s going to be on all domains. It’s going to be fused in the multi-domain understanding of the information and share that. And at the next step, trying to speed up the information flow and the information so it goes into real capabilities when it comes to finding and targeting that kind of process. And there’s potentially the goal there for us, and there is still steps to take to share the information in the right way, but we get in there.

Panel Moderator: Maj. Gen. Larry Stutzriem, USAF (Ret.)

Yeah. General Gunnerud, I wonder about UAVs filling gaps right now. Is that something you see as viable?

Maj. Gen. Øivind Gunnerud:

Yeah, it could be. But then again, of course, there are some advantages and disadvantages by UAVs as well. But I think the combination of that, and satellite space assets will be the important thing to look into. And when it comes to domains and stuff like that, I think it’s also important that we have Arctic strategies that are common, known to each other, across domain.

Panel Moderator: Maj. Gen. Larry Stutzriem, USAF (Ret.):

Very good. So, we’re getting short on time here, and I just want to kind of fill in one gap, and that is, and I’ll ask this of all of you in terms of new organizational pieces, whether it’s at Allied Air Command or within NATO, that will help facilitate the coordination of the NATO Arctic nations in terms of looking at deterring Russia. Do we need some more devices there? Do we need some different types of organizations or are we pretty much where we need to be?

General James B. Hecker:

Yeah, we are looking into that. We haven’t started the initial operational capability, but we’re seriously considering, and I have General Cavoli’s approval, to start looking at a third CAOC in NATO, and that third CAOC is going to be in the Arctic region. And the experience that we get from the Arctic nations up north, it is just invaluable because although two of the nation’s haven’t been in NATO the entire time, they’ve worked together all the time. In any NATO conference that I go to, it’s the four of you guys in a huddle talking about things that you’ve been thinking about for a long time. So, we’re going to exploit that close relationship between the Arctic nations and the knowledge that you bring to make that happen. So, we’re going to use that and we’re going to exploit it. And I think we’ll probably get a third CAOC up there fairly shortly.

Panel Moderator: Maj. Gen. Larry Stutzriem, USAF (Ret.):

Outstanding. About a minute left. General Gunnerud, any thoughts on that?

Maj. Gen. Øivind Gunnerud:

Yeah. I know we welcome that. And I think it’s important that, by establishing a third CAOC, maybe, we also will take some more regional responsibility. And I think it’s also important when it comes to deterrence and the development of Euro-NATO, it’s also, too, to focus on the integrated air missile defense, to strengthen those parts of it. If I might add something to it.

Panel Moderator: Maj. Gen. Larry Stutzriem, USAF (Ret.):

Jonas?

Maj. Gen. Jonas Wikman:

Yeah, if I can add something, General Hecker is going to figure out the NATO organization piece of the puzzle. And I think if I can add something to that kind of idea is that I think that in the circumstances that we are operating right now, day zero or day minus zero capabilities in an organization, the ability to operate as you intend to fight from day zero is going to be really important for true deterrence. And I’ve been talking about that earlier, and I think that has to affect how we organize day-to-day work. We try to do that in the Nordic countries, and that’s going to be on a national level or a regional level kind of day-to-day operation peacetime operating together to build that kind of culture and that kind of possibility to address the military problem in that region at day zero and going into taking the fight as an alliance.

Panel Moderator: Maj. Gen. Larry Stutzriem, USAF (Ret.):

Very good. Well, gentlemen, we come to the end of our time, right at the end of the time. I hope that Mitchell Institute can provide some help with this. We do have a project in this next year looking at Arctic strategy and air and space concerns in that, especially domain awareness. So, we’ll help you out up there in Alaska and other places. Thanks for a great discussion. A round of applause for our panel, please.

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This transcript was auto-generated, and may not be 100 percent accurate. The source audio and video can be accessed above.