International Partnerships in Space

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This transcript was generated with the assistance of AI. Please report inconsistencies to comms@afa.org.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

Thanks very much, thank you. Hey, good afternoon, I feel like I’m in church. Come on up to the front row, everybody. You don’t need hiding in the back. There’s plenty of seats up front. Welcome to this afternoon’s panel and this Mitchell Institute panel on International Space Partnerships. The scale and scope of threats facing the United States in space today are larger than anything we’ve confronted in the past. China and Russia have deployed both kinetic and non-kinetic counter space capability targeting US and allied space systems. The sheer complexity of defending critical space infrastructure, from ground stations to satellites, to LEO orbits, MEO, GEO, and beyond, is staggering. Luckily, the United States of America is not alone. Unlike our rivals, the United States has a wide array of trusted allies and partners ready and willing to team with us. To discuss how the Space Force is working to deepen its integration and collaboration with allies and partners, and move towards a collective force that’s truly allied by design, we have with us a great panel of four military leaders today. Please welcome Brigadier General Jacob Middleton, Commanding General Space Forces Europe and Space Forces Africa. Yes, thank you. Air Commodore Chris Robson, Commander Space Forces Group, and Joint Force Space Component Commander, Royal Australian Air Force. Colonel Frank Brooks, Deputy Director for Space International Affairs. And Colonel Walter Jull, Deputy Commander 3, Canadian Space Division. Gentlemen, thank you so much for taking time to join us today. Air Commodore Robson and Colonel Jull, let’s begin with a question for you. How is the evolving security environment that I just described in space changing the way your respective countries think about space as a warfighting domain? Air Commodore, let’s begin with you.

Air Cdre. Chis Robson:

Sir, thanks very much for the introduction, and once again, congratulations on your award today. Truly amazing career, and an honor to be here with you today.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

Thank you, sir.

Air Cdre. Chis Robson:

I guess what I would start with is that from an Australian perspective, there’s plenty of analysts out there that are debating warfighting domain as a construct. From my perspective and from a defense perspective, if you are protecting and defending against anything, and if the adversary decides to pose a threat against anything, regardless of the domain, then the reality is that via that protect and defend, you are going to be doing warfighting. Now, the biggest reality of that is that the enemy gets a vote. Standard protocol is that those that control the high ground are inevitably going to win the battle on the field. From an Australian perspective, we are moved from a balanced force capable of responding to a range of contingencies through to an integrated focus force designed to address the nation’s most significant strategic risks. If my three star was here, she would say that a failure in one of the domains is a failure in all of the domains. So whilst there is discussion about warfighting and that construct as far as Australia is concerned, regardless of the policy or doctrine implications of that, if somebody else decides to fight, we are going to be next to our closest allies to fight as well.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

Terrific, thank you. Colonel Jull?

Col. Walter Jull:

Yeah, Canada’s thinking in this area has evolved quite considerably, particularly over the last couple of years. Given the weaponization of space, we think about space less as a support vein and more of a critical operational domain. Moreover, the public acknowledgement of the space control mission area and all the thinking that we’re starting to do around space control, the processes, the capabilities, the requirements to conduct space control, really typifies how that thinking has changed in Canada, like with our partners as well.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

Yeah, it was slow to change in the United States as well, even after the Chinese did their first anti-satellite test. It was almost a decade later before we said, I guess it is a warfighting domain after all. So it’s probably fair to say that in the Western nation, our alliance, we’re a little slow on the start, but accelerating rapidly, which you both say that your countries are all in in this particular area of treating it as a warfighting domain and preparing.

Air Cdre. Chis Robson:

Politically, it’s still a difficult space, sir, is what I would say, is that we all tread a fine line between who are our trade partners, who are our traditional adversaries, who we actually use the term warfighting in front of. So from a policy perspective, it is difficult there. I would say from a warfighting domain perspective, all of the operators are under no illusion that space, and in particular, what I would say is left a flash of what we would traditionally say is where we would describe warfighting. Space and cyber in particular will already be engaged in those periods. So from an operations perspective and from supporting integrated and a collective force, I think it is difficult not to describe it as a warfighting domain.

Col. Walter Jull:

Yeah, and in Canada, from a policy perspective, it is an operational domain through which warfighting, we must be prepared to conduct warfighting. So there’s a little

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

It’s kind of how you say it, but ultimately we’re on the same sheet of music here, I gather. That’s terrific. In the space business, often it’s not recognized that terrestrial geography actually matters to conduct effective space operations. And one region that often gets brushed over when we think of space is Africa, the continent of Africa. Our adversaries, particularly China, are investing considerable resources in the continent to gain additional influence in the region. And General Middleton, can you comment on this and discuss the growing importance of the African continent as it relates to space?

Brig. Gen. Jacob Middleton:

Yes, that’s a great question, and thank you for asking the question. I think that we were just discussing about space being a warfighting domain. I think that leads into the answer to the question you just gave me. The thing about a warfighting domain is that I would argue that it doesn’t matter whether we accept that we’re in a fight. It’s kind of like Mike Tyson said, everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. Like you may not realize you’re in a fight until you get punched in the mouth, but at some point, you’re gonna realize you’re in a fight. And so what I mean by that is our adversaries have always looked at our advantage as something they wanted to take away from us, and that is space. I recall doing land nav and being told what that little stick in the ground was, and laying contours on a map, and I’m so happy about GPS. So I really appreciate space. When it comes to the continent of Africa, I think that our competitors have always recognized what the continent has brought, from resources and so on and so forth. And has been working the hearts and minds down in that area to get them on their side. There are, I was in a conference earlier, and some folks are surprised that there are some African space faring nations, which they are. I’d say the most important, from my standpoint, the most important competition we’re in is for hearts and minds. Because as far as space faring nation, you can do that through commercial contract. It doesn’t necessarily have to be sovereign, it can be. It can be geography, it could be money. At the end of the day, what we’re really competing for is a certain international order. And that really means partnership, allies, and people on our team. And as you’ve heard me say, I think we’re stronger together than we are separately. And so what we’re really competing against is who’s gonna be on our side, versus who’s gonna be on our competitor’s side. I may be a homer here, but we have more of the offer than our competitors. I think the only thing we have to do is go out and show that and explain that. And space is a great opportunity to do that because it also, because it’s global, provides a common reality of what’s going on. So it’s useful for illegal fishing, it’s useful for fires, it’s useful for a lot of stuff. And I see General Schiess out here, we can’t do what we do without US Space Command, so I gotta throw a plug out for US Space Command. But hopefully that answers your question, sir.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

It does, I would suggest that we ignore the African continent at our peril.

Brig. Gen. Jacob Middleton:

Yes, sir.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

I mean, consider the Andean Ridge in South America and how important that is for not only our own situational awareness, it’s what’s going on in space, early warning, tracking, etc. And how we see our adversaries trying to infiltrate that region. One would expect the same in Africa, and I would think Southern Africa in particular, south of the equator, would be particularly important. Is there a focus in that particular region from a space perspective in your headquarters?

Brig. Gen. Jacob Middleton:

Yes, sir, so when I got this question earlier today, we’re willing to work with anybody who’s willing to work with us. But geography, as you pointed out, matters. The closer you are to the equator, the easier it is to launch. So we are focused in certain areas for different reasons. But my team and I are willing to visit any place who’s willing to work for us. And to your point, they’re there for a reason. And the beauty about a need is that you can ignore it, but a need has a way of tapping you in the shoulder and let you know that you need it. And I think that’s the African continent.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

Great, thanks very much. Anyone else want to add anything on that?

Air Cdre. Chis Robson:

Yeah, so I would say that…

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

Talk about south of the equator.

Air Cdre. Chis Robson:

A lot of the conflicts that we are looking at, in particular for the US, it’s an away game. So understanding how you can work with, if you like, the small and the middle powers in those regions. I’ve been heard to say previously that it’s all about location, location, location. That’s the reality with Africa. It’s the reality with Australia. Being able to get closer to a home game by working with your allies and partners is going to be the game changer for how the US does business. And how we approach coalition operations in general. And if we ignore that, as was rightly pointed out, the adversary will take advantage of that, and they’ll be on the ground, and then we will be fighting to remove them from that holding.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

Right, very good, thank you. So it’s not just allies, it’s partners. And I think, particularly in this area, big emphasis on partners that have good geography, that can really help the force out. The Space Force is going all in on allied by design, which is wonderful. Colonel Brooks, you’re in the international business side. Now, how are you and your staff working to build bridges and foster closer cooperation between the United States and our allies when it comes to space capabilities?

Col. Frank Brooks:

Thanks, sir, for the question. So first thing we do is we start from the perspective of that space warfare is a complex and difficult type of warfare in general. And not a type of warfare that one country can do by themselves. And so we know that we need partners to be able to help us to do the things that we need to do to be able to cover all of the space terrain and the challenges that we have. So we start to look at which partners can we team with, can we partner with to start to do things like development and integration of capabilities. A good example of that is the deep space advanced radar capability, DARC. Where we started off with bilateral relationship between us and the Australians and then ended up being us, the Australians, and the United Kingdom. And so we continue on a day to day basis to try to build those relationships so that we can do the similar type of development engagement across the capability sets to be able to make us a more effective warfighting Space Force, right? That’s one thing. The next thing we try to do is we try to infuse allies and partners within our organization. So we have a program, the military personnel exchange program, MPEP. One of the most famous MPEPs that we have is Air Marshal Godfrey, right? So what it is is a program where we are bringing in our allies and partners into our organizations, not just at the highest level. We always tell Air Marshal Godfrey, but they’re always from 09 to E6, we’re bringing partners in, into our organizations. So they understand how we fight, how we think about warfighting, the challenges that we have. And we can do the same about understand the way their country thinks about war fighting and how they fight. And ultimately at the end of the day, that gets us to where General Salson wants us to get to with regard to partnering to win. It gets us to a more effective combined force that we can go into a fight as a collective and be successful.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

Terrific, thank you. I imagine you’re gonna find yourself on the road quite a bit. You’re new to this job, right?

Col. Frank Brooks:

Yes, sir. Been in the job less than 90 days. So my travel card is still good to go right now, so we’re good to go.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

Terrific. Well, you brought up DARC. I’m glad you did, because that was gonna be my next question. As you pointed out, the US, UK, and Australia announced the Trilateral Deep Space Advanced Radar Capability, or DARC, program. Essentially creating the first 24/7 all weather radar network for tracking objects in geosynchronous orbit. Before this, we kind of relied on camera technology scattered around the equator. And when it’s cloudy, they didn’t work. So this is truly a great technological advancement. Air Commodore Robson, how does DARC represent a new model for sharing this critical space information and domain awareness capabilities?

Air Cdre. Chis Robson:

So, sir, what I would say up front is, I wouldn’t suggest that DARC represents a new model for sharing, because from an Australian perspective, and I think from the allies that are here up front, is we’ve been doing this for quite some time. So we’ve got a space telescope that came out of an experimental scope that was in New Mexico that’s in Australia now utilizing. We’ve got a C-band radar that we’ve previously been using inside of Australia that we are currently working with. And I think DARC just happens to be, if you like, something that’s related to AUKUS in particular, because it was the three nations, so it actually has got some press as that is the new way of doing business. I would say that we’ve always done business this way. What I would say from a DARC perspective is that when I was first talked about, this was first talked about a few years ago, and somebody said, we’re going to find the most remote place in Australia where there’s two pubs and a hotel, and we’re going to send something like 300 people up there and build 25 different radars and throw that on the ground and maintain it. And we’re going to do it there in Australia, we’re going to do one in the US, and we’re going to do one in the UK, and we’re going to deliver it in 2027. And as I picked myself up off the ground laughing, I thought there is no chance that this is going to happen. As it turns out, that capability has come together rapidly, and it’s really, truly something that should be held up. And once it goes to IOC to understand how commercial, coalition, defense can work together to actually deliver something that is truly incredible very, very rapidly, state of the art system. It will, once it’s delivered there and then into the UK and then into the US, it will be something that frankly, our adversaries can’t do. And it will be a centerpiece for understanding that the thing that they can’t do, number one, spread themselves around the world and work with allies and partners, their allies and partners to get after something significant. It just shows the ability for us to get that together and actually deliver a capability.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

As far as sharing information, though, will DARC be used beyond military utility, but also to share information about situational awareness that geosegments with commercial companies that are operating up there?

Air Cdre. Chis Robson:

Yeah, so currently, everybody in the audience would have heard about JCO and us working through our civilian partners and our commercial partners to deliver space capabilities and work together, not just with defense delivered capabilities. I think DART will be something that regardless, there will be limitations from a classified level of what we can share. But certainly, I think the future is actually utilizing commercial data and also providing into those environments the classified data at the right level.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

That’s amazing technology, and as you described, a leap forward. When you started talking about putting people out in remote parts of Australia, I’m thinking 100 kilometers west of Canberra. I mean, it gets pretty remote pretty quickly, eh?

Air Cdre. Chis Robson:

Yes, sir, I think I struggle with ways to advise Americans of how remote that is. Because frankly, there are places in the US that are remote. But when you’re talking about somewhere where flights only go in three times a week, I use the term there’s not even a Walmart. These are the sorts of things, being able to get fuel, being able to get food. Accommodation for a weekly, for to rent out a house is somewhere around about the $2,500. So I mean, that’s the sort of remoteness that you’re talking about.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

Right, right, thank you. Colonel Jull, earlier in the year, the Canadian Armed Forces partnered with the Space Force and launched the Gray Jay Pathfinder, say that fast, three times, mission that places three microsatellites in orbit to test new situational awareness technologies above the Arctic Circle. Can you tell us more about this mission and how it will inform future domain awareness in the Arctic? Which is obviously a major concern for Canada.

Col. Walter Jull:

Yeah, obviously we’re very focused on Arctic surveillance and a whole number of different capabilities for Arctic surveillance to detect ships and aircraft. And Gray Jay Pathfinder is one of those. Very excited about this project, launched out of Vandenberg in January this year. It’s an R&D project, but we’re getting the data and it’s pretty positive right now. So it’s essentially three microsatellites that operate in a coordinated fashion. A chief and two deputies, they have RF detect capabilities to detect and then geolocate objects focused in the north, above the Arctic Circle. They will detect and geolocate using time difference of arrival and angle of arrival techniques. And then they will take IR imagery of those objects as well and fuse that information together to develop a more fidelity on particular threats or objects operating up in the Arctic. So done at fairly low cost, collaboration with Space Flight Laboratory out of University of Toronto. And certainly will help us de-risk larger acquisition projects as we look to layer on additional capabilities for Arctic surveillance.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

Great, so it’s mostly an RF system as a tip and cue and then hand off to an IR imagery?

Col. Walter Jull:

That is absolutely correct, yes.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

Great, well I know Canada’s done great work in radar surveillance from space over the years, even when I was on active duty. Do you see a time when this technology would evolve to an all weather capability to be able to continue to surveil? I assume the weather gets bad on occasion up north in the Arctic and where it could tip and cue a radar satellite in a similar fashion.

Col. Walter Jull:

Yeah, so this particular, there’s a series of objectives that Grey Jay Pathfinder have to accomplish through different all weather types. It’s certainly part of the mix, but it’s an R&D capability. And then informing through R&D channels to our partners and allies, the data, the lessons learned, and also informing our own follow on procurements.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

Great, well the fact that you can do this with microsatellites, it’s pretty impressive. And I could imagine a time when you have a constellation, not just an experiment up there, to provide the surveillance that not only Canada needs, the United States and our allies in that critical part of the world, but that is often ignored, often ignored. So thank you for that. ITAR, a four-letter word that certainly our allies and partners overseas have not appreciated. But over the past year, the United States has eased hundreds of the export restrictions through ITAR reforms. And Colonel Brooks, since you’re in the international business now, how have these changes improved the ability of the United States to deepen its collaboration with our allies like the United Kingdom and Australia? And beyond that, is there still more to be done or have we finally got it right? And I’ll turn to our allies to get their perspectives on that after you comment on the advancement that have been made.

Col. Frank Brooks:

So first, the International Traffic and Arms Regulation is a regulation that the State Department owns and manages. We support that process. Basically, it’s an export license process that allows us, that allows our companies to be able to export key capabilities to our allies. And so over time, that process has been something, I guess, they refer to as four letter word in some sense. But the State Department, along with SAFIA, we’ve sort of worked through trying to make that process better, smoother. So specifically for the UK and Australia, we’ve been able to take that process down, the license process down, from 90 days to about 45 days. So significant reduction in the time it takes to get that license. So what that means is that we’re much quicker to allowing our partners to be able to understand technologies, to be able to get information and start to have those discussions about key and critical capabilities that they can acquire to help us with things. And what we’ve seen that benefit at is in areas like P&T type technology, space domain awareness type technology, space C2 type technology. So there has been benefit that we’ve seen so far. Now, I think the easy answer is yes, there’s still work to do because that 45-day reduction is a reduction that’s specific to the UK and Australia. And SAFIA stands ready to work with the State Department and sort of try to make that spread across more of our allies and partners to be able, so everyone can receive that same benefit.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

Yeah, I think also part of the difficulty with ITAR was it actually hurt American companies that could not export their technologies and share those technologies with our allies, our close allies and partners. Which led to new industries overseas certainly to their benefit, but it kind of slowed down, I think, in my view, some progress that we could have been making as a team. So it’s great to hear that it’s changing. I’d love to hear, Air Commodore Robson, if you feel like, I’m sure you think there’s more to be done, but your perspective is on it.

Air Cdre. Chis Robson:

Yeah, look, sir, I think there’s always more that can be done. I think there’s been really fantastic advances to reduce the time frame. I guess what I would say with ITAR, it’s often used as an excuse inside of organizations not to share, because it’s too difficult. I think that the people that are working it are trying to get past that. As an example, for instance, in Australia, and probably no different to AFRICOM with the US over there, is that we have a lot of smaller Pacific nations and other areas that we work closely with. If I look at space domain awareness, every arrangement that the US has right now is bilateral in nature. So if I have data and I have ITAR, and I can work with the US on it, the bigger issue I’ve got is being able to share it with the smaller partners that I’m trying to bring along for the ride as well. So I think the advancements are happening with us getting through on a faster time frame. I think the approval for us to be, if you like, a trusted partner, to share it with some of the smaller nations and take responsibility for that also needs to have some more work done on it.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

Yeah, great. Colonel Jull, any thoughts from a Canadian perspective on this?

Col. Walter Jull:

Well, obviously we haven’t benefited from the UK-Australia work, but certainly we welcome the additional ITAR reforms to extend out to additional allies.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

Great. Don’t get me wrong, ITAR was established for good reasons. But there’s knock-on effects that I think we’ve had to work through, and it’s good to hear that progress is being made, Colonel Brooks, so thanks for that. I want to jump to force generation and training. And General Middleton, there’s a growing recognition that allied space operators need to train together to fight together. And what are the most promising developments you are seeing in your command when it comes to combined space exercises and training programs? And are there other steps we need to take to prepare for operating as a true coalition in a time of conflict in this contested environment?

Brig. Gen. Jacob Middleton:

Yes, sir. So I think the most significant impact from a space standpoint is when we’re doing joint exercises now, we’re being included in the planning process. So previous to that, and you may remember this, when you were in command, if you really added realism from a space standpoint, you could stop the entire exercise.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

Yeah.

Brig. Gen. Jacob Middleton:

Right now, what I’ve asked my team to do is, it’s important when we’re running through a scenario to make sure if in the scenario we make decisions about space, that we accept those risks throughout that exercise and those are realized. Even if we have to end that exercise and go back to another point and start again, it’s important for the players to understand what that decision means. Because at the end, for all exercises, you hot wash this thing and you learn from it. It’s important to make sure that those lessons are something that senior leaders consider at the end. So we’re doing that and we did that first with UCOM. And it was very significant and I thought very rewarding. The next step from an operational standpoint is an ops center. So we came from the Air Force, I think most of us are familiar with deployments and CENTCOM. And as you’re aware, that release of information and working together from like 30 years ago until today. And so it is establishing an ops center just like every other domain has. We’re still working through with both the African continent and Europe deciding who’s gonna lead space for NATO. And be that centralizing folks for the African countries. But we still need to be prepared when that decision is made to fall in line with that and start exercising as a team. So that would be, I think, the most significant next step. Bringing in the coalition, US Space Command, pushing things back to General Smith there. And General Cantore, I see him in the audience, to make sure we complete that cycle from requirements to training to operations.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

Great, thank you, thank you. Earlier this summer, the Space Force released its international partnership strategy. And how does this strategy create inroads for greater collaboration and cooperation as we look to integrate our respective space capabilities? And Air Commodore, let’s begin with you, if that’d be all right.

Air Cdre. Chis Robson:

I think integrating across all of our combined forces is extremely important. I think the strategy put on paper what we were already doing. And I think like all military people, when we’re tasked to do things, we like to be able to nest that task under a strategic document. I think that what it did was actually put out for everybody to see that integrating, working together, is absolutely at the forefront of how we need to be able to do business. I think the exercising side of things, once again, from a space for space reasons, we were doing okay. I said previously that we used to have to knock on the door for planning. And then eventually the door got opened, and then eventually we were allowed to come in for the planning side of things. We’ve now moved to a point where planning doesn’t happen until somebody says, there’s space here to get after that. And I think from a coalition perspective, and I think the integration that we are doing has allowed us to be a stronger team as a whole to get after that. And I think the plan highlights that and allows us to collaborate in the inside of that.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

Great, thank you. Colonel Jull?

Col. Walter Jull:

Yeah, I think the partnership strategy released by the US Space Force in July opens the door further for us to collaborate with US Space Force. In terms of force design, joint training, and operational planning. A successful partnership from a Canadian perspective that predates the strategy, but likely we’ll see more of those is perhaps the MUOS system, the Mobile User Objective System, of which Canada, first of the five I’s, is allowed to get to initial operating capability. And that partnership with US Space Force has given us significant satellite communication capability on the move, both voice and data, a successful partnership. And I think amongst many different capabilities, that partnership strategy will probably allow us to see more of those in the future.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

Great, if either one of you had an opportunity to adjust the strategy going forward, and so it’s good to review your strategy regularly and make adjustments. Does anything jump out at you that you would like to see in a future iteration of the strategy?

Air Cdre. Chis Robson:

From my perspective, it’s broad enough to capture, sir. I’m always concerned if we try to put too much detail in there and then find that that limits us from moving forward. I think the CSPO construct that we are currently working on that has gone from five I’s to seven I’s, and we’re still trying to grow that. I think that the document actually supports that moving forward, and that needs to continue to be the case.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

Now back to General Middleton’s point, you’ve really got to get to that coalition level of operations to be successful. And Colonel Jull, anything you’d like to see changed?

Col. Walter Jull:

Yeah, I agree with Air Commodore Robson. The CSPO and MNF-OOD, the plans and objectives, maturing those relationships will increase partnerships, increase the number of like-minded allies that we collaborate with. And so just really maturing that and seeing that through, I think there’s a lot to chew on there. It’s ambitious, but I think it’s well laid out in terms of a plan for integration moving forward.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

Great, thank you. I’ve saved the thorniest question for last, and that has to do with classification issues. It’s always one that in every meeting I was ever at, when I was on active duty with our great allies, that was always one of the things that was brought up, is that if you could only share more, we could be more effective. And we even have a hard time sharing amongst ourselves between services in the US. And I imagine our allies have classified information that they’re not willing to share with the United States, and we understand that completely. But can we comment, I’d like to go have all of you comment on where you think we are with regard to kind of opening up our coats and sharing what previously was, we thought, too sensitive to share with our allies. Where have we advanced the ball there? And General Middleton, from your perspective, let’s start with you.

Brig. Gen. Jacob Middleton:

I thought you said it was thorny. I thought I was gonna push this over to Frank Brooks for this thorny issue.

Col. Frank Brooks:

You first, sir.

Brig. Gen. Jacob Middleton:

All right, so I did talk to General Purdy about this earlier, I think yesterday in a week. And I think we’re making great progress in the area. I mean, really started years ago, I think, when I first remember this, with General Raymond. So I think we’re making great progress. I think the key is leveraging commercial. There’s a reason why we have a foreign disclosure office. There’s a reason why we classify things, and I get it. There’s risk to declassification or even reducing classification. So if you’re concerned about that risk, you just say no. Or you ask somebody to be very specific in what they’re looking for, cuz you don’t wanna accept any risk. The easiest way to do that is turn as much things as we can over to commercial, and have the government do the things only the government can do, like out in the middle of nowhere with two pumps in a hotel, right? That’s the stuff, I think, that’s the first step. But I think General Purdy and his team are doing great work, as well as the rest of the department. We’re heading in the right direction, but I think we still have more to do, as far as empowering commercial to do more to help us out.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

Thank you. Air Commodore.

Air Cdre. Chis Robson:

I couldn’t agree more. The JCO construct, our ability to use the commercial capabilities inside of that, use that to effectively be our media outlook, if you like, for the things that we’re doing operationally, that we need to actually have advertised that our adversary is using, or doing nefariously, and using commercial to be able to look at that. I think that’s incredibly important. I think from a sharing arrangement, there is years of our intelligence community working on the Five Eyes construct to do it. I think the operational construct is a little bit different. I think the capability construct, as it’s been developed from a sharing perspective, is a little bit different. What I would say is that all of the uniforms and all of the civilians in the room right here are actively engaged on trying to make it better. But inevitably, it’s policy that makes the difference. So it’s from a classification and a security perspective for all of our nations, it’s not a… The individual members can try to work as best they can, but they can only work inside of the policy that they’re given. So I was lucky enough to do the last three years as a deputy J5 at IndoPACOM. And on a daily basis, I had my US counterparts fighting to try to share, but the policy was what stopped them from doing so. Inside of the smaller nations, the levers for me to be able to lean into my policy in Australia are much shorter. And I can actually make those effects and I can make those changes. I think from COCOMs and from individual operational areas, it’s far more difficult for the US to make those changes writ large because of how large the organization is and how many organizations that affects within the Department of Defense.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

Right. I love how you just threw it right at the policy, guys. So it’s perfect for Colonel Brooks now to comment. So, Colonel Brooks, how are you going to fix this?

Col. Frank Brooks:

So while…he’s right, the policy piece still needs to be looked at. And so while the policy piece is being looked at, what we’ve done in South Hawaii is we’ve tried to take the foreign disclosure process and make sure that it’s closer to need. So for example, we’ve put foreign disclosure officers at the Space Development Agency, or the SWAC. And as well as we’ve taken some of the authorities that have typically been maintained at the staff level, we pushed those down to the field comm FDO so they can do some disclosure type of activities for the field comms themselves. What that allow you to do is as the conversation starts to happen, you can start to address those disclosure issues and classification issues up front. And what the hope is, is that you can mitigate some issues before they become a problem. So that’s the approach we’re taking now. Don’t dispute that there’s probably more policy work that needs to be done.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

Great. Thanks very much. Colonel Jull, your perspective.

Col. Walter Jull:

Yeah. I mean, I think the solution has sort of been alluded to, a robust exchange officer program, having Canadians at all levels with working in the US and having Americans and other allies working. And so those thorny issues are tackled with foreign nations in the meeting, and they can be addressed. Also, training with allies so we understand the policy issues that we come up against. But those are two things. The issues still pop up, but those are two things that can remedy.

Gen. Kevin Chilton, USAF (Ret.):

I think we’ll be working this on the last day of our lives. But it’s worthy work. You certainly don’t want to be saying, “Well, I can’t tell you that it’s classified in the middle of a fight.” And so there’s prioritization involved here. Oftentimes, I’m afraid the only people who don’t know our classified things are ourselves, and we hide things from ourselves. But it’s good to hear progress is being made. And ladies and gentlemen, unfortunately, we’ve run out of time. I want to encourage everyone as you leave the auditorium here to swing by the Mitchell Institute table. There’s some great journals, periodicals there that you can read that help educate, and you can share with others. So please stop by the Mitchell panel on the way out the door. It’ll be on your left as you walk down the hall. But please, most of all, join me in thanking this great panel for their presentations this afternoon.